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As far as “only Baha’is” goes, it is because baha’is have the job, among other things, to protect the message so that all humanity has access to Baha’u'llah’s message. Being a Baha’i available to everyone, but yes, there are certain responsibilities that go with the name, so becoming a Baha’i is not the same thing as giving $ to the Red Cross or being a fan of some of the Baha’i thoughts. That said, we all have our own parts to play in the intricate dance towards peace.
As far as things changing with the times, that does fit into the thought of progressive revelation. God sends Messengers to humanity at various intervals, as we need them. The spiritual message is always the same, but the social and administrative is usually a bit different, as per our needs at that time. For now, Baha’is believe, that Messenger is Baha’u'llah, whose message cannot be altered. But there are undfefined areas which can be ruled upon by the Universal House of Justice as needed.
I guess I would tend to say sovereignty instead of segregation. Just as we all have sovereignty in terms of our personal decisions, so does the Baha’i Faith. I cannot tell you how to live your life, and vice versa. All individuals and family groups will, by nature, of being human, have differences. We all need a healthy amount of independence from each other in order to truly act in conscious & chosen unity, free from coercion. Financial independence is part of that picture.
“If there were no educator, there would be no such things as comforts, civilization, or humanity. If a man be left alone in a wilderness where he sees none of his own kind, he will undoubtedly become a mere brute; it is then clear that an educator is needed.
But education is of three kinds: material, human and spiritual.
…man needs an educator, and this educator must be unquestionably and indubitably perfect in all respects and distinguished above all men. ”
-Abdu’l-Baha
When Christ was crucified and left this world, He had only eleven disciples and a very few followers; but as He served the Cause of truth, look today at the result of His life’s work! He has illumined the world, and given life to dead humanity. After His ascension small by small His Cause grew, the souls of His followers became more and more luminous, and the exquisite perfume of their saintly lives spread on all sides. -Abdu’l-Baha
The Baha’i Faith is only 166 years ancient,and growing in #
What does it take to change the hearts of society? since we don’t have all the answers we should rather look at what it took and continues to seperate us. For one, its marks, 2 its seperating ourself from the rest of the world, 3 our invitations towards a new way. No one has all the answers cos each community is still growing via different experience. Therefore we must note each progress and build on that…like, How can we Help. Assume you turn away sincere help, what does that say to all.
It may well be a priivilage for Bahai’s to contribute to building a world community but what about those whom have clamoured for years towards betterment whom is not Bahai. Are they not being recognised by your organisation then? Is it HONEST to exclude ones self from the world yet claim remedies to save the world. Do you not see this vital fact?
Seemingly vain to state “building a new civilisation” under such limited vision. Where is the unity in that?
1) Notion of grades…silly notion. God does not reveal his commandments and yearnings, so mankind can be more educated. Allah (Yehua), sent Muhammed to rebuke and protect – not only teach..Jesus and his cousin John the Baptist were sent for many reasons.. Salvation and repentance, being the most vital. Knowledge of God and his rules being on par.
Moses came to establish & protect the Jews, and also provide commandments.. not poetry, and a political system, like Mirza and Shoghi.
Excellent evening, Bahai supporters
Vouchsafe…dispensation…manifestation…glory of sun of jewel of the sea of the mirror of the….of the … huh?..where was I?
stop quoting poetic references from Mirza, or his son..Abbas (these are their real names). Use you brain and your soul which God made, to formulate an intelligent debate.
Your points can all be rebuked, this is why your religion has a lower populace than the three MAJOR religions of the world.
It’s a privilage to give to the Baha’i funds, and only Baha’is can do so. It’s a privilage to contribute to building the new civilization of world unity envisaged by Baha’u'llah.
Another reason, my own personal view, is that it does’nt allow for any demise in integrity when it comes to giving to the fund, no soliciting is made to any outside sources,and even within the Baha’i community, you only give if you wish to and it’s entirely private,and you are never individually questioned to give money.
“Only Bahai’s”…do you not see this part of your claim as a segregation?
Perhaps you make sense that no one may change writing but it is pertinent to note that times change and it should be allowed towards reaching goals once current situations hinder progress. If we follow word for word we should recognise does it fit here & now.
How else is the global family going to unite under restriction of this sort? Is the Earth but not one country and mankind its citizens.
A very understandable perspective. As far as I know, Baha’u'llah himself indicated that only Baha’is had the privilege of contributing to the funds of the Faith, so it is not something the people made up. Again, part of the reason is that it prevents the Faith being seen to be, or really being, shangaied by outside influences. In much the same way, Baha’is cannot change the actual Writings, so that the original message is unsullied by human meddling.
Excellent analogy and I am certain there may be other explanation. But don’t you reckon it is perhaps a contradiction if a faith invites unity but deny help from all other faiths. The first motto to Bahaism is unity in diversity. That could also mean all is accepted. So there is the contradiction. Not of the religion but the people who deny the help. I know the endebted part but this is a whole cause not an individual’s goal. One must know history is again repeating
The reason for not accepting outside funding, as I know it, is to maintain independence. It is the same, I reckon, as how I, as an individual, don’t like to be indebted to anyone else, and therefore don’t borrow money. I need to be free to make my own decisions without people who may have loaned me money feeling that they can influence me. This is just a personal response though, and ypu will undoubtedbly find a better explanation in actual Baha’i texts.
Really, the Baha’i Writings indicate that Baha’u'llah was indeed a descendant of King David. I’m not sure of all the geneological details, but it’s there to be looked up.
Thats not right. We Don’t believe that God had it incorrect. We believe that God revealed in his All-Knowing Wisdom, exactly what was needed by the people at that time, though Jesus Christ. And as the spiritual maturity of people developed, so to did the depth of the teachings, first from Muhammad and then later Baha’u'llah. Simple eg. like they neighbor, vs unity of the world….they are the same, just one is more developed to the state of the people atm. and it will always continue to develop
…”In like manner, if the Sun of Truth were suddenly to reveal, at the earliest stages of its manifestation, the full measure of the potencies which the providence of the Almighty hath bestowed upon it, the earth of human understanding would waste away and be consumed; for men’s hearts would neither sustain the intensity of its revelation, nor be able to mirror forth the radiance of its light. Dismayed and overpowered, they would stop to exist.”
- Baha’u'llah
…”Consider the sun. How feeble its rays the moment it appeareth above the horizon. How gradually its warmth and potency increase as it approacheth its zenith, enabling meanwhile all made things to adapt themselves to the growing intensity of its light. How steadily it declineth until it reacheth its setting point. Were it all of a sudden to manifest the energies latent within it, it would no doubt cause injury to all made things… ”
-Baha’u'llah
Please see next post for rest of quote.
To PeterJDeer:
Exactly, the grades are all right, and each is a progression of the one before.
Here is a quote from Baha’u'llah about progressive revelation. By Dispensation, it is meant, for example, the Dispensation of Christ, or Muhammed, or Baha’u'llah:
“Know of a certainty that in every Dispensation the light of Divine Revelation hath been vouchsafed to men in direct proportion to their spiritual capacity. ”
Please see next post for the rest of this quote.
@uglygoon30 – Furthermore, you state that Baha’is believe these past revelations to be “all incorrect” or “incomplete”. If I were to say–on wednesday–that it is wednesday, I would not be incorrect. If I were to keep my wednesday appointments on wednesday, that would be entirely appropriate. Does the existence of Thursday mean that everything appropriate for Wednesday was incorrect?
Consider also grades in school; does the next grade mean the grade before was incorrect? Or is it rather necessary to progress?
@uglygoon30 – If I may, allow me to examine your logic;
You say that the laws are infallible and cannot change or progress. Were not many of the laws which Christ Himself brought alterations or progressions of earlier laws? Indeed, were not certain laws even abrogated? You will note in Christianity many practices (such as stoning those who curse their parents, burning bulls on altars, etc.) are considered to be abrogated, are they not?
that is not right at all. before you call my faith poisened, check your facts..
@uglygoon30 thats not right. i advice you to check your facts before you go spreading lies….
@uglygoon30 Bahá’ís believe that God sends “Messengers”, or Prophets, every some time, in the past you couldn’t just say “men and women are equal”, now, that is something evident, God, did’t contradict Himself, it’s like an update if you want.
You don’t teach a 7 year ancient the foundations of physics, you teach him to addition and substraction.
We, the humanity are like that 7 year ancient kid…, and God is our teacher. Is that simple…
@uglygoon30 You say that as if you find the laws of the Ancient Testament completely perfect.